- @Kacy.Maxwell

- The Boy With Horns children's book

- @SkilledDad

**This transcript is mostly accurate. Some errors may exist.**

Hey guys, and welcome to the skilled dad podcast. My name is Zachary sir. I'm your host and boy, are you in for a treat today? Uh, I've got a gentleman with me and he and I have been, been, , chatting for. Well, pretty much right at the hour mark now, and finally decided to hit the record button. I've got Casey Maxwell with me today. Hello, Casey. Hey, Zach. How are you? I'm great, man. How are you? Man, I'm good. 

It's been a great, it's been a great conversation.

I feel, yeah, I feel like we should have hit record probably about 45 minutes ago, but I'm excited to talk to you, man. 

Zach: It's just the icebreaker. Yeah, pretty nervous people. Um, no, so , I'm really excited to have Casey on for a variety of reasons. A little bit of background on Casey , he and I had the opportunity to work together, not necessarily directly on like the same team, but kind of around the same projects and just, , had the opportunity to build good relationship.

And, um, I remember you always set up like this kickball game in your office. And , , I would , stop by from time to time just to see whose score I could beat. And, uh, always a place of fun. Um, and thanks for doing that, by the way. I don't think I ever thanked you for that. 

Kacy: Well, you're welcome.

So the genesis of that game came from. So there was a couple things. So one, I knew I was never going to be a high powered executive for a couple reasons. One, I don't smoke cigars, right? That is. That feels like a, what, what, no, I don't want to checklist for this. Yeah. I want to, I want to, I want to just have a cigar and sit like that.

Just there's just power in that. I, I, I don't do that. The other thing is I don't golf. Right. And so I told my wife, we joke around all the time. I'm like, I'm a high powered executive. We joke about that because I'm like, I'm never going to be a high powered executive because I don't, I don't golf, right? And so most of these people have little pudding greens in their office.

I'm like, I don't, I don't like that. I don't like that. So I decided to create my own game called croquet kickball somehow. And again, this is another podcast. Somehow a croquet mallet made its way to my office and somehow a kickball made its way to my office. And so I created a game of, you had to use the croquet mallet to hit the kickball and it had to go into this little goal, which was, uh, uh, 

Zach: A chair at one point, I mean, it 

Kacy: kind of, yeah, you had to go through a chair.

You had to hit off the wall you had, but it had to land in this sort of goal area. And there was five different, there was five different things. So it was basically just my take on. I don't know how to golf. 

Zach: Well, uh, it was fun. And even though you tried real hard, you, you're still a CMO. Um, so you're, you're, you're doing some things there.

Uh, and so well done. And I hope that you have patents on your, on your game. If you don't, uh, let me know, that'd be great. Um, yeah. And so outside of, outside of being a game developer, uh, one of the really cool things, so Casey's like just one of the. Probably most genuine people are going to meet. Um, so if you have a chance to meet him, you know, don't be creepy on the street or anything like that.

But if you get a chance to meet him, Casey's awesome. Um, but. He's also extremely creative. So if you're active or on LinkedIn, if you're in the business world and you bring those two things together, I would recommend that you follow Casey, uh, because he's always putting these infographics out that are highly illustrative and they're simple to understand on complex topics for guys like me, that's really helpful.

Cause pictures work well. Um, but you've also done something really interesting and I actually want to. Probably if we can, we're just going to take this wherever it goes, like usual, but I also want to kind of wrap this episode around this, this new venture that you've had, because when I experienced this and I'll just unveil it in a minute, when I experienced this, there were so many ties for me personally, um, in, in dad life that, uh, I think You know, there could be some really interesting takeaways out of this and that, that new venture, um, is you've, you've become an officially published author.

And I'm going to hold up this book, The Boy with Horns with the lighting in this. I got to work on the lighting. Uh, for those of you listening to the podcast, be glad because the lighting is, is good. But The Boy with Horns and, um, you both wrote this and illustrated it. And, uh, it's a children's book. And we're gonna, I'd love to dive into that, learn more about, you know, the book, the genesis of the book, kind of the takeaways of the book.

And if it's okay with you, kind of share some of my takeaways from it, uh, as we get into it. But, um, but that's Casey and he's done a lot. He's doing a lot and he's a really nice guy with great hair. So again, thanks for being on, man. And I'm going to turn it over to you now, um, and, and do the question I normally ask, which is, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Kacy: Well, that's a, that's a very flattering intro. I appreciate that. Um, so I'm just a guy that lives in. Nashville, Tennessee. Right. I've, uh, I'm married. I've been married for close to 17 years. Like it's, uh, um, actually it'll be, it'll be 18 years this year. Right. So I am very close to that. I know, I know. I'm glad, uh, just scrub that 17 and just go straight to the 18.

Um, so I've got, I've got two, I've got two kids. One is Thirteen, it's my daughter, and so she is... Heading into, uh, young womanhood, definitely teenage years, which I don't, I don't know if you can ever be prepared for. I, I, I, I, you know, I... The, the, the, the way this is going, she's, she's an amazing person, but you, you think like dadhood just changes in such a dramatic way when they become, when they become, uh, teenagers and, and my son is 10 and he is, he is one of the, you know, we'll talk a lot about him just because he is one of the reasons that, that this book happened.

Um, so, so that's my family. I've got a lot of my family here in Tennessee. Family is extremely important to me. We go to church together. We, you know, I've got an older brother and a younger sister and they all live here. We, we grew up. In Ohio, but somehow even my parents, everybody migrated down here to all of you.

And I see everybody, yeah, everybody's down here. Wow. Which is awesome. Yeah. Which is, is super cool. Uh, we go to, we go to church together, me, my brother and my parents, my sister, she, she lives a little bit further away. So we don't go to church together, but it's, it's really cool being able, like my kids to hang out with their cousins and everything.

I didn't have that. So that's kind of new and different to me. Um, so that's, you know, that's on the personal side and then On the, on the work side and on the creative side, like I do marketing. I've always done marketing. I enjoy it. There's, there's an element of it's always changing. It's always new. And I, I love, I love learning new things.

So it's, there's never something where, oh, I can just do it the way I've always done it. Right. So I've always got to be learning. So I enjoy that part of it, but there's always been this creative side that I've had as a kid. You know, I was in drama. I was in, I did a ton of plays and shows. I moved out to LA when I graduated to do acting.

Um, I, I used to draw a ton and it wasn't until a couple of years ago where I got an iPad and I, that love of drawing came back. And LinkedIn has been very, very pivotal in that. So I I'm, I'm very active in LinkedIn and I create these things called sketch notes and put them out there. And it's the way that I am learning and processing through things.

Um, but I'm, I'm learning to integrate all of that into one thing versus like, here's a bunch of segmented. Pieces of my life. And I'm like, how, how do I integrate all of those together, uh, to, to give me one sort of whole person that is, that is Casey that got super existential. Uh, it's probably too early in the podcast to get that existential, but, but yeah, that's where I am.

Zach: No, it's, uh, yeah, just go deep into the pool, man. I mean, you know, I love it, but, but I like the, uh, the, the putting all the things together because you've done a variety of things. You know, I didn't know he went out to LA. Um, so learn that, but all the different things and, you know, one thing about marketers.

Is I think there's even a book title that all marketers are, I think it said liars, but then it's crossed out with storytellers. Sure. Sure. All marketers are storytellers. And, uh, and so you've kind of taken all these things and, and then was it, it's just recently, uh, you released it, the boy with horns. And earlier this year in May.

Yeah, and time flies. Um, but, where did, so where did the book come from? Um, because again, there's so many things to pluck out of this that I actually would love to kind of just dive into that. Um, but what, what what led you, you mentioned your son, what led you to, to write this book and maybe give us also a high level of You know, what, what is the book about?

If you can, you know, go high level on that. Yeah. 

Kacy: Yeah. So the, the book itself, uh, and this is the skilled dad podcast. So we, we want to talk about being a dad in ways that we should lean in to what are things that probably expectations of us as dads today that we're not. Expectations of our dads, right?

The, that continually changes and there's, there's a different set of expectations. So, um, one of the biggest things is I've, I've always put my kids to bed. My wife generally falls asleep earlier than I do. And so I've adopted the, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put the kids to bed. Right? And so it's going up and, you know, when they were super young, it was reading a story, uh, praying and then, you know, turning off the light, maybe having a quick conversation and leaving.

And one of my son's best tactics, you know, I, I thought I, I thought I had it. Good. 'cause you know, when you're a parent, you, bedtime is one of those things that, that is standing between you and. Sort of decompression time or 

Zach: whatever you wanted to do. Yes. Like 

Kacy: you've, you've, you know, you're at work all day and then you, you were home and you're wanting to be a present parent and then you put your kids to bed.

And once you put your kids to bed, you can just kind of relax. Like there's, there's no expectations that are put on top of you. And so we're kind of drawn to that. Right. We're drawn to this, like, Oh, I just, I need to get all the burden of life. It's not like you hate the other stuff. Right. But it is, it is a responsibility.

And so sometimes you can rush bedtime and you can kind of like, can I get through this as fast as possible? And kids. For some reason, kids understand that that is, that is a time to extend, right? And so kids want to extend that as long as possible because no kid wants to go to bed. They all want to stay up.

And so my son had an amazing tactic of this. So I thought I had it down. We go in, we read a story, we pray, we turn off the lights. I lay there for maybe... You know, two minutes and then I can leave, right? And so what he would do is I go in, read a story, we'd pray, turn off the lights. I'd lay there and I would say, all right, bud, I love you.

I'll see you in the morning. I start to sit up and he would always, he would say the line that would get me almost every time. He'd say, dad, can you tell me a story? And, you know, there was this part of me that I would, I, you know, it was kind of like internal struggle of. No, I don't want to tell you a story.

I want to go watch some TV. I want to relax. And some, some nights I would do that. Like I am, this is not me kind of saying I'm the perfect parent. So every night I would lay there and tell him a story and it would bring him closer to Jesus. Or, you know, a lot of nights I was like, bro, I just read you a story.

I'm going to bed. Right. And so this one night. I, I don't know what it was, but we, I said, all right, I'm going to tell you a story. And the stories normally that I told were retelling other stories that like Rapunzel, but I would change the name to like Tuhpunzel or something like a stupid name, right? But then I would tell him the story of Rapunzel and it would, I would pretend that it was my story.

But what I would always try and do is if I could tie it into a boy. He would listen to it more. He would like it more because he would put himself in that, in, in the shoes of that boy. And so, honestly, you know, I'm, I'm not going to get super spiritual, but I don't know what, I don't know where this story came from.

Uh, you know, it came from my mind, but how it got in my mind, I believe it came from somewhere else. But so I sit there and I say, sure. And so I say, okay, uh. It's on Once Upon a Time, there was a boy and he woke up one morning and he had horns. And I remember, I remember when I gave that, that premise to my son, you know, a lot of times he would ask questions or he would be like, uh, you know, depending on where the story started, but when I, when I gave that premise, there was something that quieted in him and he was, he was bought in from the beginning.

And so there was something of. He started going through his day and the first thing is he sees it in the mirror and he's like, where, where these horns come from? I didn't have them when I went to bed. Right. And so then I start telling him this story and nobody can see him. Right? His sister can't see him.

His mom can't see him. People at school can't see him. Nobody can see them. And, as I'm going, I have no idea where this story is going. Right? Yeah, it just, it was a great premise to start with and I had no idea where it was going. And so I, I keep going and that's, most stories are like, I'm just hoping maybe I'll find a landing pad for, for this story.

Uh, that's not like, and then a tiger jumped out. Right. And he ran, you know, like some ridiculous ending. And so, and so I, I actually landed. I landed this story. I just looked over my son is sitting. He's sitting out in the in the hallway listening to this 

Zach: totally listening to you. 

Kacy: Hey, buddy. How you doing, buddy?

Um, so I'm trying to figure out an ending to this and I find it and I can tell you the ending, which is not the actual ending of the book now, but I, I, I ended it and there was this silence in the room and my son goes, Shabbat Shalom. I'm kind of, I'm kind of laying there and I was, I think I was as surprised as he was that it actually had an ending.

And he goes, that was a pretty good story, dad. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that was. And so I said, well, I love you. Good night. I gave him a kiss, left. Uh, the next night I'm laying there putting him to bed and he goes, dad, can you tell me the boy with horns again? And so I said, okay, so I told him the story again, and he asked a couple more nights.

And I, every time I told it, I tweaked the story a little bit, right? I took out parts that were boring, added in new parts. And then I ended up telling my wife and I'm like, this is actually, I think a decent story. And she goes, well, maybe you should write it down. Right. And so I wrote it down and, you know, we can kind of talk about where it went from there, but it kind of came out of, um, something that I could have chosen to ignore.

Right. I could have said. No, I've read your story. I'm going to go to bed or I'm going to go downstairs. You go to bed, but I said, no, I'll, I'll tell you a story. So I kind of, it was a chance, you know, it was me at my best, which is not always there. Right. But I leaned into it and something, something really awesome came out of it.

So something that I'm really proud of. So that's kind of the, that's kind of the origin of it. 

Zach: No, I love that. And it's interesting because, uh, you know, for those that are marketers or business or either way, you were like testing and iterating kind of each night with your son, as far as pulling out some stuff.

You, I think you said, you know, pull out the parts that weren't good, put in something new, um, which is really cool. Uh, a, that you can remember the whole thing. I'm glad your wife told you to write it down. And, um, and be to, to have fun with it and just kind of go with it, but to also be there enough to recognize that he was starting to ask some questions and use it as a tool to develop conversation, you know, with your son.

I think that's really, really cool because, you know, oftentimes we can miss those because we're so. Looking forward to whatever show we want to go watch, or if we have work that we're gonna go do, or whatever it is, um, we can miss those, those moments, and they go quick. So kudos to you for catching them. Um, but you didn't stop there.

So you actually went and, like, you wrote it down, but, but, what, what led you to decide to actually write it down, and then type it out, and then publish it, and put it out there for others? Yeah, so 

Kacy: that, uh, that story was about five and a half years ago, right? That I actually went and wrote it down. I started talking to somebody about publishing and they were talking about, okay, well, you got to create this, uh, sort of pitch deck and we can go pitch it to a bunch of publishers and you should probably find someone to illustrate it.

And they could kind of put it together. And they kind of asked me, Do you want to be a famous author like is that your goal to be a full time author or is this a story that's important to you and you kind of just want to get it out there and I was like well sure it'd be cool to become a full time author that'd be that'd be great but honestly I just I kind of want to get it out there like I love the story I love the it.

Where it kind of headed. And so he said, well, here's a couple of things. If you go with a publisher, you kind of lose control of that, right? Yes. You get money, but all of a sudden that publishing house is in control of what the final product says, what the final product looks like and the overall distribution.

And they're kind of like, if you want to, if you really want to control every aspect of that, you'd kind of need to do it on your own. So I was like, okay, well, maybe I should. And then I started talking to some illustrators and I, you know, I started kind of getting their thoughts. So I would let them read the story and they're like, Oh yeah, I kind of see the boy like this.

And I was like, well, no, the boy looks like it looks like this. Right. And so I had a very, very specific thought around it. And so it, I never found an illustrator and then it just kind of sat. You know, both of those things kind of died and, you know, like, and I'm not going to go here. We're not going to go there.

And so then it just kind of sat. And I'm, I'm the type of person that does annual goals. So every January I say, these are the things I want to accomplish. And for about five years, right. Uh, or publish the boy with horns sat on my goals list and every year I wouldn't do it. And other things would become more important.

I would do, you know, different things. And last year, I honestly don't know what it was, but there was, there was something in me that was like this desire of, man, I really want to do that. I've been talking about this for five years. I need to do it. And so I don't know, I don't know where the quote unquote, courage came from.

Maybe it was, I had a whiskey or I had, you know, I had something that gave me a bunch of courage. Right. And so I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to figure out how to write it. I'm going to figure out how to illustrate it. And I'm going to figure out how to self publish it all on my own. I created this graphic and I posted it on social media.

And I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to publish it April 12th. Mm hmm. I remember when you did that. Yeah. I just put it out there, right? I had no idea how to publish it. I've never self published anything. I've never illustrated a book. You know, I can, I've done some drawings, but I've never done any of that.

And I've obviously never written. A children's book, even though I had a draft written down, there was 1800 words. That is way too much for a kid's book. Way too much. Right. I found out the first guy I talked to, I kind of showed him my drafting. He's like, um, that needs to be between 800 and a thousand words tops.

And you have 1800 words. You had basically cut out half of this book. And I was like, excuse me, I have no idea how to do that and still tell the story. Right. So, uh, I had no idea how to do any of that, but for some reason I put it out on social media and what happened Was all of a sudden I created accountability for myself.

Right? Everybody started asking me about it. Almost every day I had someone going, Hey, how's that book coming? What, where are you in your, the book process? Have you, you know, do you have an editor? Or how are you gonna publish? Mm-hmm. . And I realized that all of a sudden I'm gonna have to actually do this.

Mm-hmm. . People are asking me about it. I said I was going to do it. I'm going to have to do it. So it was that simple act of me saying, I'm going to do this, everybody. And again, I don't know where the courage came from for me to do that because it sat for five years, but that simple act alone then propelled me to go, I'm going to have to do this.

And so I started publishing a weekly, uh, weekly, probably bi weekly blog about things I was learning, things I was trying to figure out. Some of that was growing an email list so that when I published, I'd be able to get. People excited about it, but some of it was just, this is, this is what I'm figuring out.

And I got so many people compact contacting me and going, Hey, I've always wanted to publish a book. I've always, I've got a kid's book and it's rattling around in my brain and I'm watching your journey because I feel like you can figure out all this other stuff and it'll make mine easier. And again, that was, that was more accountability and it, it gave me.

It gave me even like, Oh, I'm helping people do something that, that they want to do, but maybe they're, maybe they're a little scared to do right. You know, when, when something is unknown and big, a lot of people won't do it because it just seems. It seems too big. Like I can't, I can't climb that mountain, but, but honestly, publishing a book is not that big of a deal.

Like it's, it's not that hard to do. It's just, you gotta be willing to kind of figure out. The nuances of it, right? You got to wade into the deep end and then you're like, Oh, this is, this is not so deep. So I felt like I was able to help people wade into that deep end by kind of doing it in real time and kind of building quote unquote in public.

So I was like, Hey, I figured this out. Oh, wait. Nope, I figured that out wrong. Uh, I gotta move over here and I gotta, I gotta do that. Well, 

Zach: there's two things out of that, though, that you said simple act, um, of, of putting out what you're going to do publicly to. A sphere of people that, you know, and then I would imagine some several that you don't, uh, to say, I'm going to do this thing and then not really know how to do it.

It's not, that's not necessarily simple. That's, um, it takes courage, uh, I think. And, you know, whether it's maybe a book or something else somebody's working on, it can be hard to step out there. Um, but then the other thing too, is sometimes the best way to learn is to teach. Um, I'm a language nerd and oftentimes.

You know, part of, part of those, if you ever go see, um, he has a YouTube channel, um, XiaomaNYC. This guy speaks like all these languages. He's super fluent in Mandarin. But anybody that speaks all these languages, um, you're gonna sound horrible most likely when you start it. But if you put yourself out there, the people that, uh, can speak it well, usually end up coaching you.

They appreciate what you're doing. But then once you're... Meeting somebody that's just starting you can start teaching them and now listen the principles become more cohesive in your brain So it sounds like you've you've gone certain headlight distance now You can turn around and help some males get there and it's helping you and that's um, I mean it's That's a great way to, uh, to make yourself write this book.

So, and now it's locked. Well, 

Kacy: and that's, you know, that's, that's one of the reasons why I started leaning in on LinkedIn. I started doing these sketch notes because I was reading a lot of books or, you know, I was, I was listening to a lot of great speakers and. One, I wanted to internalize all of this stuff and I wanted to, to make sure that it was, because a lot of people consume and they think, oh, I'm learning stuff, but they're not actually learning anything.

They're just having this information wash over them. Yeah. And so I said, if I can start teaching some of this, or if I can put it in a way that people can understand it. Then it'll help me learn it better because you can't communicate anything simply if you don't understand it to a very, uh, you know, understand it a lot.

Right. And so I'm like, if I can't, if I can't make a sketch note that is, that is understandable in its simple form. Then I don't, I don't know it well enough. So I, that's what I started putting out there on LinkedIn. And what I realized is that with kids books, the reason like the best kids books that you read the best ones have a very big idea or very big concept.

And what they've done is they've put it and they've couched it in a story that is simple enough for a little kid to understand. Right? So it may be the concept, the story they understand. Maybe it's the visuals that they understand. There's something where they are able to grasp this. And the adults that's reading it to them, understand the big concept, right?

And then all of a sudden it creates this bridge between the adult and the child to have a conversation that wouldn't have otherwise happened. Right. And so that, that like, again, people are like, how did you get from a kid's book to you do marketing and you do sketch notes and all this kind of stuff.

That's, that's kind of the bridge. It's all about taking the complex and figuring out how to make it simple. Because even as adults, we still need the complex to be made simple. Right? That's, that's what we need in, in everything for us to really, really grasp it fast, especially in a social media world. So that's, in my, in my mind, that's how all of this stuff sort of ties together.

Zach: Yeah. With, with the, um, kind of on the topic of creating a bridge. So, uh, I don't know how... I don't know how we can talk about a couple of the themes in this thing that, you know, you and I were talking about earlier, um, that apply both to kids and possibly dads or adults without like, Spoiler alerting everyone.

So, I'm not sure how to do that. But, what I would say. I 

Kacy: think it's okay. We can tell the ending story. I don't want to ruin your 

Zach: parade. I don't want to be the 

Kacy: blame here. Yeah, well what we can do is, I'm okay ruining it for the parents. I think, I think the shock, quote unquote the shock, can come for the kids.

That can be, that can be something. So. We can we can kind of tell the ending so the the boy 

Zach: wakes up. Okay. I know I know I know Okay, go ahead. Okay, because you're talking about creating a bridge to create conversation But I want to share a little bit about what happened when I read this book Okay, and then we can and we and then we kind of roll into Really kind of this, uh, a little bit of the ending.

So you're, you're getting a little bit of the beginning and a little bit of the ending, but you're not getting the middle. So there's a tension there, which, you know, you should go and fill, um, by checking this book out. But so after I read this book, I was reading to both my two eldest. And so eight and five, eight boy, five girl.

And, um, and. When we got to the end of the book, and I'll let you roll out what it is, we got to the book, I said, hey, you know, the boy with the horns, like, it's the whole story about the boy with the horns, but then at the end, he, he finds something, um, about the horns specifically that he realized was like a difference that he had that maybe others didn't, and so, um, when I asked my son, like, hey, What do you think the horns were?

Because do you think they were really horns? Or like, what do you think? Um, because I kind of saw his face and, um, he, he said, well, you know, they're horns, but I know that they don't necessarily mean the horns. He said, he said, I think it means something that, um, that, that when you feel alone and Um, that maybe, you know, something that other people don't, um, and so you kind of feel lonely like, Oh, Hmm, this is create a whole new line of questioning, you know, that we'll have at some point in time, but it created that conversation.

And I said, okay, well, what, tell me more about that. And um, you know, have, have you ever had some things that you're confused about or that you felt alone? He's like, oh yeah, it's okay, well, what did you do? This is the part, and I'm just like, I'm like the, going the confessional piece here, he's like, well normally I just don't tell anybody.

I'm like, ugh, gosh, yikes. Um, and so I said, well, okay, do you always not tell everybody? He's like, not always. And so it just started this whole, whole line. And it also gave me a opportunity to have that conversation so that I can pay attention to how much. I'm, um, asking the right questions over time because as he gets older and more things come, um, you know, I need to be facilitating those conversations and the book helped facilitate that conversation.

And the deeper part is when he said the words that he said, I was thinking, you know, he's eight and learning things all the time. Um, but when I found out for sure that I was going to be a dad, And then pretty much every week after that for the last, I'm going to call it nine years, including when the baby's in the womb, um, nine plus almost, there's so many things that I'm like, I don't know.

I have no idea. And, you know, I have ideas of what it could be, but I'm kind of confused. And who do you talk to about it? And, you know, uh, in my gutsy enough to go and ask some people about it, um, which all, Which honestly was some of the premise of this entire podcast and platform. Um, and I, I spoke about it a little bit more on the Dad's Making a Difference podcast, where I was on the other side of the mic, but the skilled dad is like V3.

But it really hit me just at the same time as it was hitting him, where I'm like, okay, you know, let's cross out the boy. It's like the dad with horns kind of thing. So, um, you know, not necessarily ruining the ending, but... But the experience that I had and my daughter's like, give me the book. I want to read the book again.

And I'm like, you can't have the book, like I said earlier in the podcast. So, um, that was, that was a really neat thing and, uh, I'm going to have my wife do it as well just to see what, cause our communication styles are different. Yeah. Let's see what that facilitates. But it's, you know, it's, it is a, it is a simple story.

But then at the end of it, I was like, dang, man, cause you know, you're like, you're my friend and I know how creative you are and I'll, but I had no idea what the book was going to be like. And then when I read it, I'm like, I know this guy, this is kind of cool, but, um, so anyway, that's just some of my experience and, um.

You know, I don't know what you want to share kind of about the book, but I think that there's, maybe before our time is up, which it goes quickly, uh, there's some relevance in understanding kind of both the facilitation of discussion with kids, as well as the actual active work that we can do as men, as dads, because of the horns that we may have.

Does that make sense? Yeah. 

Kacy: Okay. Yeah. The, so the underlying concept of the book, so the horns, the horns represent, obviously they're not physical horns. They are in the book, right? But they, they don't represent, uh, somebody out there that grows physical horns, right? Right. They represent something that happens in your life that somebody else.

Either doesn't see or they just don't understand, right? And we've all had this, we've all had this, whether we're, you know, eight year old boys and whether we're 40 year old men, there's something that is happening in our lives that. The people around us and, you know, our immediate circle may not understand.

And so what that causes us to do is, you know, maybe sometimes we ask people in our immediate circle, or we kind of just kind of, Hey, can, can you see what's going on? And they're kind of like, I don't. I don't have any, I don't have any context to that, so I can't really help you. And what that does is we just end up going internal, right?

We're like, I'm just going to keep this on the inside. I'm not going to talk about it. I'm just going to power through it. And what that does is that creates isolation that makes you feel alone. And it makes you feel like nobody else in the world will understand. What, what I'm going through and whether you're eight or whether you're 40, that's very heavy, right?

Like this book is to open up a dialogue between parents and their kids so that kids, when they feel something that is different about them, that they're able to talk about it instead of just internalize it. Because a lot of times when you internalize it, you do other things to make that feeling go away.

And it's usually not great things when you're not sharing with somebody and the, the, the best part of this book is that at the end, the boy with horns finds someone that knows what he's going through, that can see his horns. And that alone makes the horns bearable. There's something, there's something about us when we, when somebody understands what we're going through, all of a sudden, it, it, they, they haven't taken it away.

They haven't, you know, they, they haven't removed the horns from us. They haven't removed the weight that we're carrying. But there's something when somebody else really understands what we're going through, when we feel seen, that all of a sudden... There's a new found ability to, to deal with it or to, to walk with it, right?

Even if you don't completely understand it. And so again, that, that wasn't the first, that, that wasn't the first ending. You know, the, the, the first ending was, was different. And it, it, as I started writing it and leaning into what, what are these horns? And who should be able to see them and why should they see them?

And what does that actually mean? Um, there's a, so. The story ends, right? And then I have this sort of author's note in there that every time I read, like when I, I've read this story for a lot of people, when I read that, it's, it's hard for me to read without tearing up and I'm not, and I'm not, most people on this podcast probably don't know me and it sounds like I'm, you know, maybe Dramatizing or whatever.

But whenever you have something about you that makes you feel alone and feel isolated, that moment when somebody else or somebody beyond this world can understand, there is such a piece that comes from that, that like. I know I've experienced it when I feel alone and then all of a sudden don't feel alone that somebody is in this with me that the relief.

And so when I, when I talk through that and when I read that, like, I, I get choked up, I, you know, my tears, you know, I get tears in my eyes because I think about my son and I think about him being alone and something that he's struggling with and not talking to me about it. And not talking to others about it.

And I'm like, you shouldn't, you shouldn't go through this stuff alone. Like there's, there's nothing that's going on in your life that, that you should go through alone, especially something that is, that is a struggle. And so I hope that this book creates conversations between boys and girls. And their parents about like, this is, these are my horns, right?

These are the, these are the things that I'm struggling with. And I need somebody to talk to, to make them a little easier to, to deal with. 

Zach: Well, I think you've created a really, um, I say this sincerely, um, really creative and effective way of silting that conversation because it, it came up organically for us.

I mean, at the end of the book, I could see his face. We were chatting and, you know, there's more follow up to do. Um, so again, well done. And, you know, it's interesting, one of the topics that's come 

Kacy: up, 

Zach: um, probably more times off the microphone than on with other guys, is one of those conversations that I think is a, is potentially a horn.

This might be a stretch, doesn't apply to you, you know. Move on and think about other things that you've gotten, but the, the miscarriage word is, is, is one that I think carries some interesting, um, feelings and whatever with it, or people don't understand, or maybe they do, but what I've found, um, because we, we experienced this a year ago, um, what I found is that when you actually Talk to people about it.

You find out that there's more than you would think that have experienced it. And, and it kind of is a relief for everyone. So I don't know, you know, that's kind of what came to mind, um, for me, as you were talking through there and this is dad podcast, I mean, there's all sorts of stuff, but, um, but no, man, it's, it's exciting.

So, you know, for those listening or watching. Um, I recommend that you go and get a copy of this book, um, and read through it, you know, read through it with yourself, uh, read through it with your kids afterwards. And the reason I say read with yourself, for yourself, or however you want to say that, is, um...

Because I think there's something in it for all of us, and before we have it with just the kids, we can kind of gather our own pieces with it. And then it can also maybe help us be prepared or formulate any conversations that could come out of it. And I think they'll all be positive conversations. But when you were saying...

You know, the, the idea of kind of your son working through stuff and not bringing it up, I mean, that's kind of what just happened about, you know, a few hours ago when I was reading it to my son again. So, um, it's, it's interesting, but it's so interesting how, uh, simple stories can, can turn into big things that eventually can help us as parents navigate with our kids.

Can't navigate for them, but we can for ourselves. To a degree. So if you, you know, if you've got some horns, think about that. Yeah. 

Kacy: Yeah. Never stop. Never stop looking for somebody out there to talk about. Never just say, you know what? These are just mine. I'm all on my own. Keep looking. Keep looking. That's, that's the message of the book.

Like there's, there's somebody out there. There's somebody out there that is going to understand and is going to help you walk through that.

Zach: Keep looking and ask. I'm going to throw out the ask piece. Um, and that's also, you know, what, uh, what Skilled Dad's about. Um, hopefully through all these stories, you're going to hear that you're not the only one facing, we have a variety of things where dads are figuring it out, but we don't have to do it alone.

Probably shouldn't. Uh, don't recommend it. Um, so we have to be bold and courageous and ask, and we also be bold and courageous and ask for some of that accountability, which you did. And in a, in a very big way, and it's, uh, you know, I hope that it, it, I hope it pays off for you in a very large sense. And I'm going to say this with all the love and endearment that I can, um, not, uh, for any reason, but that it helps dads and parents facilitate good conversations for their kids.

So, you know, one at a time. So well done. And again, thank you for that. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Um, I have one other question for you. Before I get to that, where can people find your book if they're interested in checking it out more? 

Kacy: Amazon is kind of where I've, where I've sent everybody. amazon.com obviously.

Uh, the boy just sort search the boy with horns. Um, you can get it, you can get it on Barnes and Noble and you can get it on Walmart and you can get it anywhere. But, uh, Amazon, Amazon gets it to you pretty fast. Um, yeah, 

Zach: they do. Yeah. Uh, I will also have links in the show notes of the podcast or the, you know, videos and everything.

Um, so take a look at that for sure. And, um, okay. So outside of the book, you've got a 13 year old, you've got an 8 year old, you've seen some things, you're, you're learning new things. What are, um, a couple of pieces of what you learned that, that you would share with someone else? As a dad, that, um, that could be good advice or good ahas or just good takeaways.

Yeah, I would 

Kacy: say I'll give, I'll give one and I'll, and I'll do that because I think it's, I think it's. It's one of the biggest ones that I've learned. So a lot of times when as a, as a parent, there are times that you want to pour into your child. You want to teach them things, right. And you want to connect with them and you kind of think through, Oh, I'm going to do it.

This way, or I'm going to do it that way, right? A lot of times those ways are not the ways that your kids want, right? They're not the times that, that your kids want. And most of the times that your kids want to connect are the times that you want to go do something else, right? Like you're putting them to bed.

Or your, you know, my, one of my daughter's things is she loves going in. I have a Jeep and she wants to do Jeep rides, right? Which means we put the top back, we blast hits one, which is, you know, Taylor Swift and all the, the latest music, right? And then we go drive the back roads of Tennessee. And listen to that, right?

But those are the times that she wants to connect with me, right? My son wants me to read him a story and I think he's sitting outside this room waiting for me to finish so that I can go up and tell him a story, right? And so those are the times that often for myself that I'm like, I just want to go do something else, right?

But those are the times that when I say. No, these, this is what being a dad means, right? These are the times when my kids are the most open with me, that they're the most honest with me, that they want to have conversations with me. And if I'm like, no, do it on my terms. I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss those, miss those times.

And so I always have to remind myself, you know, those are the times that I need to, to be the dad. Not the times just when I want to, but when the times that. They're reaching out and giving that sort of opening or opportunity. So I just encourage people again, look for those, look for those opportunities when your kids are saying, Hey, I would love for you to connect with me and, and lean in.

You're not going to be perfect. That's fine. I don't every time. And so my son's listening to this every time I'm not going to stay later, but, you know, there are, there are times that I will, um, one of the, one of the best things is that he is now asking me to tell stories all every night. And then he's critiquing those stories and saying, I don't know if that one could be a book.

Or, uh, maybe, maybe that one, I think that one's good enough. You should maybe make that one into a book, right? So he's helping me, he's helping me hone the next book, I guess, that, that I'm gonna write. I'm gonna get him 

Zach: a recorder for Christmas. And he's just gonna audiobook. He's gonna make a deal later, so.

No, it's awesome. Thanks, man. Thanks, uh, thanks for that. That's, look for the opportunities to connect, uh, cause sometimes we do it on our own terms. We miss the time when it's on their terms. So, that's really good. Um, where do people follow you? I didn't ask you that if they're checking out your 

Kacy: content.

Yeah, I would say LinkedIn, which if you're not on LinkedIn, you're kind of like LinkedIn, really? LinkedIn's changed a lot since the, since the pandemic, a lot of people moved in and started actually sharing not only work and career, but their They're places where you can have some pretty deep conversations, different than Instagram, different than Facebook.

It's, it's a little bit more professional, but you can have some real life conversations. So that's where I usually post my sketch notes, but I also post about my, my journey, writing a book and just me as a human, so, yeah. Yeah, that's where, that's where I am most often. Do you have a website? Um, no. Uh, well, you theboywithhorns.

com and there's a link on there that says, let me, you know, you can subscribe to my newsletter, but if you say, let me read it first, it'll take you to all the posts that I've written about how I published the kids book. So if you're, if, if you're thinking about, I want to write and publish a kid's book, You can read through that and it's the ways I figured out how to do.

You know, find a publisher and how to create a template and how I went about writing it and finding in a copy editor and all of that kind of stuff. So if that's, if that's something that's interesting, you can go to the boy with Warren's. com. If you hit Casey maxwell. com, it honestly just redirects you to my LinkedIn.

Cause that's where I spent most of my time. So 

Zach: Casey maxwell. com nailed 

Kacy: it with K A C Y like that's it's spelled weird. So they're probably going to type C A S E Y it's K A C 

Zach: Y, but it's no, it's, I was actually about to say that, especially not that it's spelled weird, but maybe, uh, now brother, thanks for getting on here with me.

Uh, again, stoked about, uh, the book stoked about what you've learned. And, uh, also just the time that we've, we've actually had much longer than, than what's recorded here. Uh, and I've, it's been a blast. Um, so I appreciate you taking the time. Uh, and for doing what you've been doing, man, keep up the good work and we look forward to, uh, potentially next rendition down the road.

But first let's get this one changing some lives. 

Kacy: Yeah. Thanks, man. You as well. Keep up the skilled dad. We need more people out there pushing dads to, to continue and supporting dads to help us be better. 

Zach: I love it. He's talking to you. All you, all you dads, uh, and, and moms, and we, I know we have both, uh, from all over, uh, both the country and a lot in Europe as well.

So thanks for listening. And, um, like I said before, if you get a chance, uh, go take a look at. It's a boy with horns. It's is a great read. It is a, um, uh, there's some interesting takeaways and I think you there's something in it both for you and your kids. And, uh, I know that's what I've found. And hopefully out of this episode, you found something that you can take away and that you can apply not only to your life, but also if you've got some friends.

That, uh, you think would, would help them, please share this with them. Um, and, you know, we're continuing to develop this. And one thing that I can continue to do is a lot of what we're doing. But I also know that, , for some that have reached out. , there's some things that maybe you're wanting to hear, , and not necessarily me telling what we want to hear, but like topics, things that you want to discuss or, um, things that you would, that we can be a help for.

And like what Casey was saying earlier, , there's too many people that have been going just a little bit down the road with the headlight view that are far enough to turn around and help us that we can all work together and help each other because. Um, because we don't have to do it alone. And so if we got , some horns that are going, , one of the worst things we can do is just put it deep down in there.

Um, it might seem strong, but in the end, , it doesn't always help. , so if we can help with that, we'd love to hear the things that we can help you with. , you can follow us on all the socials, at Skilled Dad. , but most importantly, I hope that you take away something from this episode, , and can apply to your life on your journey. We'll see on the next episode, you're listening to the skilled dad.